Episode 8: ERGs and Winter Conditioning

[00:00:09] Speaker A: Chabrias, an Athenian admiral of the 4th century BC, introduced the first rowing machines as supplemental military training devices to train inexperienced oarsmen. Chabrias built wooden rowing frames onshore where beginners could learn technique and timing before they went on board the ship. Rowing machines soon became known as an ergometer, originating from the Greek word ergon meaning work and metron meaning measure. Therefore, an ergometer is a device specifically designed to measure physical work and power performed by the body using metrics like watts. In current day rowing, the Concept 2 is basically the standard erg for rowers in the U.S. the erg is displaying and tracking key metrics as you row, like stroke rate, how many strokes the rower takes per minute, split, how long it would take the rower to go 500 meters at the current pace, and of course, watts, among others. Now that winter is fully upon us and the weather is too cold most days for rowers to be on the water, we're in what's called winter conditioning, where rowers all over are relegated indoors to the erg to maintain and grow their strength and conditioning. Coaches have a million different ways they build fitness, endurance and speed on their teams to prepare for the spring season, they measure progress through test pieces like 6 kilometer and 2 kilometer distance pieces, where the rower aims to cover the distance given in the shortest amount of time. If you ever meet a rower, ask them what their 2k is, they will surely tell you. Winter conditioning can be an absolute slog. Days upon days in a room on an erg, just churning out meter after meter after meter. The weeks, the days, the second, seem to pass like molasses as your body is put through an intensive training program. Soreness, boredom, exhaustion make showing up every day a battle of motivation and willpower. Progress, measured in mere split seconds, seems inconsequential, even invisible. This makes it incredibly tempting for rowers to skip a day here and there. Small choices made during the winter to cut corners, to take it easy, made over time add up silently eroding progress, and suddenly you're back on the water and you simply aren't performing the way you were before. This is what it means when you hear rowers say that races are won or lost in January. Ultimately, it's the day by day decision to show up, to put in the work, to grind through the doldrums of winter conditioning when it's dark and cold and your bed is oh so cozy. That effort, that daily choice, is what ultimately translates to improve speed on the water. In the spring season, when it matters, it's like what Russell Tops said in our last episode, you have to love the effort, because the effort is the sport. In rowing, as in life, it's the accumulation of small, seemingly inconsequential choices that shape the life we end up living. Choosing to grab a candy bar often enough may eventually have you blaming the. [00:02:57] Speaker B: Dryer for your shrinking pants. [00:03:00] Speaker A: Choosing to call and check on your dear friend again and again might mean someone shows up when your mom passes away. Choosing to leave work on time to catch a few extra minutes with your spouse repeatedly over the years might eventually be the difference between divorce and a happy marriage. These small choices are endless, and their consequences aren't always immediate or even linear. But taken together, the choices you make each day determine the opportunities your future self will face. So give yourself the gift of making the choices today that will provide the opportunities you hope for in your life's spring season. [00:03:35] Speaker B: Welcome back. I'm Alicia Cushman, and this is the Gather. We are back together again in the living room. It's been a few weeks. Happy New Year. [00:03:43] Speaker C: Happy New Year. [00:03:44] Speaker D: Happy New Year. [00:03:46] Speaker B: I'm super happy to be back together. Our topic today is ergs and winter conditioning. So I thought I would just kick us off because obviously I've done a lot of erging, but I know it's like a concept that not everyone's super comfortable with, so I wanted to see what. What questions have you guys had about ergs and winter and conditioning? [00:04:02] Speaker E: I have tried erging. I really dislike erging, but one of those things, you know, we got an erg, and you see the concept two ergs. And then I'm also at Planet Fitness, and so I see rowing machines or erg machines. Actually, that's a good question. Is there a difference between an erg and a rowing machine? But the concept 2 was always talked about. Will describes it as. It has a certain momentum to it. So it feels more like you're on the water than the one at Planet Fitness, where you're basically pulling rope. And it feels like the same thing every or the same amount of effort every time, like you're starting from zero. But I don't. I don't know if that's. For me, it's kind of. What's the difference in types of ergs? [00:04:41] Speaker B: It's a good question. So I'm obviously, I mean, of the four of us, I've probably been on the erg the most, but I'm not like a super expert. But I. The concept, too, is the standard in the rowing world. [00:04:53] Speaker A: Right? [00:04:53] Speaker B: I. I Agree with Will. I do think it feels more similar to the, the kind of, the way it feels on the water, but it's still not quite perfect. And the Concept 2 has a damper and so you can kind of adjust the damper to the drag factor. Right. So if an erg is overused, sometimes the drag factor is off and blah, blah, blah. So you can like sort of adjust it to feel more or less like what you feel in a boat. Um, in particular a boat with other people. I would say the Planet Fitness Ones. Sorry, Planet Fitness hate to do this. I feel like that's no longer going. [00:05:26] Speaker E: To be a sponsor. [00:05:27] Speaker B: Right. I feel like those are just a way to break your back. I don't know what it just feels as a rower. Getting on one of the Planet Fitness rowers feels just so wrong because I don't know what it is. It's like a mag. I don't know if it's magnetic, I don't exactly know what it is. But there's resistance even in the recovery when you're not supposed to have resistance and it just is really. It just feels like you're going to break your back. I feel really bad for people rowing on the Planet Fitness Ones. You have water ergs, which is what at Orange Theory they use. And the concept there is that it's supposed to feel more like it's the water. To me, it doesn't. I don't feel like you can get enough resistance to feel like it's water, especially when sort of high pressure rowing. But it's kind of similar. And I know, I know there's like magnetic ergs and fan and I know there's all kinds of difference. And then the last thing I'll say again is the Concept two is the standard in the sort of US rowing world. Peloton released a rowing machine. I haven't been on one, so I don't know what it feels like to row on that. But the Peloton one is interesting because it has sort of AI sort of video technology that will tell you in your stroke what you're doing wrong. Oh, which is real time. So it'll like. It has a screen that'll kind of like flag. Hey, you open too early, you opened your body too early. So I haven't been on one of those. But I kind of want to just feel like, even if nothing else, even if it's not a good workout, it might be a good sort of technique kind of thing to do. And I know hydro has one too, but like I stick with the concept too, because that's kind of what is standard in. In the rowing programs, and we were kind of chatting earlier. The Concept 2 can be static or you can actually put it on sliders. Not quite sure the difference between the two, but one is where the erg is sort of sitting on the ground and your seed is moving. And then on sliders, you connect the sort of feet of the erg to a slider, and so you're static and the erg is moving. So I'm not sure the pros and cons of either of those things, but to your point, there's a lot of different types of ergs and. And I think it's just a matter of what's your sort of purpose in working out and matching it to the right erg. But in the rowing world, the concept too, either on sliders or not, is pretty standard. [00:07:32] Speaker E: Can I do a quick definition check real quick? [00:07:34] Speaker B: Sure. [00:07:35] Speaker E: So then the ergometer is the measuring thing that's giving you the numbers. And the rowing machine is the actual physical part. [00:07:43] Speaker B: The rowing machine and erg are the same thing. [00:07:46] Speaker E: Okay. [00:07:46] Speaker D: The thing that gives you the stats is just a monitor. [00:07:49] Speaker C: And the Concept 2 was actually designed, I think, for rowers, by rowers, so. And that's why it is the standard. It's trying to get as close to possible as what those kind of dynamics are on the water. And then you have all these other brands and styles that want to get the same kind of body workout, but not necessarily applying the same kind of concept of on the water rowing as as much as Concept2 has been able to do. [00:08:12] Speaker E: Yeah, yeah. [00:08:13] Speaker B: So my friend had a. Had a one that was on the ground and like, had like bands or something, and I. And she set it out and she's like, you can row here. And I was like, I have no idea what this is or how to work thing. I'm so sorry. She was like, so excited to show it. And I was like. [00:08:27] Speaker D: Well, I was just gonna say that I have a concept to erg also, which is what I do my rowing exercises on. But someone donated a rowing machine to us that's sitting in my garage. And I should have looked at what the brand is, but it's not a concept too. And what's just. It's very interesting to compare the two because technically you can do a rowing stroke on this. I'll just call it a bobo, like rowing machine that's in my garage, but it just feels flimsier. The concept too, among other things, is a workhorse. It is a. It's heavy, it's strong. You can really work hard on it and not feel like the whole thing's gonna fly out of your hands or fall over. Whereas this other rowing machine I have in my garage is just flimsier. The Concept two ergs can break into two pieces to be moved around or whatever. They can also stay together, obviously to be moved around, but they're so big and strong that they literally come into two pieces that you put together. This other rowing machine, again, I don't know, the brand is just one piece and it just fits. Feels like it. I literally don't feel as secure and like, I have like as much control over the situation on this other rowing machine. So I just love how. What a tank the Concept 2 is. [00:09:33] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, so I mean, it has to be right. It is the workhorse of the rowing world. [00:09:37] Speaker D: Right. [00:09:38] Speaker B: And rowers are especially the, like, heavyweight men are like. There was a guy on Derek's team that was 6, 9 and like, geez, yeah, they can pull hard. [00:09:49] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. [00:09:51] Speaker B: And they pull hard over a lot of meters. I mean, Derek held a world record for a little while for a million meters, which he did on a concept 2 in my living room. A million meters. [00:09:59] Speaker D: That's right. [00:10:00] Speaker B: Right. [00:10:01] Speaker D: That's awesome. [00:10:01] Speaker B: And so they're just, you know, they're built for the work you have to put in when you're rowing. So, yeah, it makes, it makes sense that the others might not be built that way. The Planet Fitness one, I was thinking as, as you were talking, I was thinking about the Planet Fitness one that I tried and, and this guy on Derek's team, it was six, nine. I actually don't think he would have fit on that thing. [00:10:18] Speaker E: Oh, true. [00:10:19] Speaker B: So I do think there's something about the size of the concept too, as well, for people who are taller. Not all the rowing machines are built to let your legs actually straighten out. There might not be enough distance. [00:10:30] Speaker C: Yeah, there's that. And you can also tell where the handlebar height is on some of these machines. It just does not mimic where your handle on the, the boat would be. And you're pulling either from lower or you're pulling from, from higher. It's just, it doesn't, it doesn't match in the same way. So that's another key difference in a lot of these rowers, for sure. [00:10:50] Speaker D: I had a question. You know, obviously we use ergs in winter conditioning time in place of rowing on the water. And they do mimic the action of, you know, pulling on an Oar, but not exactly. One question I've always had is that when you're in a boat sweeping, you sort of go out over the side of the boat, you're torquing your back a little bit, whereas on an er, you're just going straight up and down. And so I've always wondered, is that exactly the same? Like, you're not quite getting that, like, pull to the left or pull to the right that you do when you're rowing in a boat? Like, do you. What do you know, Alicia, about? Does it matter that you don't get that extra movement in an erg, or is it close enough? You know, what do you think about that? [00:11:28] Speaker B: So it is true. There is. The erg can only do so much. It's not just. It mimics sculling, right? Because in sculling you're in the center of the boat, but sweep, you lean. I. I mean, obviously I'm not an expert here. I. It's actually better that you put in so many meters during winter conditioning and you're not leaning to the side because especially as someone who's only rode port, I have some really significant sort of muscular imbalances only rowing on one side of the boat. So I do think it helps to sort of even some things out. But it's not just not being able to sort of lean to one side like you do in sweep, but you also don't get the feel of being off balance. You don't get the sort of inconsistency of the water conditions. There's a lot that an erg can't do. And the other thing that ergs can't do is the concept who is phenomenal. But it, it benefits people who are heavier, right? And so the, like, big heavy guys can pull big heavy watts on the erg, but on the water, they also have to pull their big, heavy weight through the water. And so, like, it doesn't they always. One of the main sayings in rowing is ergs don't float right, because of things like that, right? It's what, what is what the ergs are really, really good at is actually what they were designed to, which is to give you that concept of the basic foundational body movement of rowing before you start inserting these other conditions, like the balance and the blade work, right? So you can just get that body movement, which is really sort of the core of the power of the stroke. Legs first, then body, then arms, slow on the recovery. Do it backwards and you can kind of get that sort of just pure body movement. And then on the water, you can focus more on some of the more nuanced techniques in the boat. You can't do. You know, a lot of people only are ever on the erg. We talked about this a little bit in winter conditioning. Like, it's not just rowers who are on the ergs. It's, you know, Hyrax people or people at Orange Theory. There's a lot of people who are on ergs. You will never touch an oar, but it does give you that foundational body movement, which is really critical. And then you can adjust, based on the boat that you're in, to the nuances of actually being in a boat. That's my thought. What do you guys think? [00:13:35] Speaker D: That makes so much sense to me. [00:13:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:13:37] Speaker C: And I mean, the point of the erg, too, is really to get rowers working out when they can't be on the water. [00:13:42] Speaker B: Yep. [00:13:43] Speaker C: So it really provides them that ability to keep doing and keep training and winter conditioning and. And getting themselves geared up for when they can get back on the boat, which I think all of them prefer. But, you know, it gives them that opportunity. [00:13:56] Speaker B: Winter conditioning is so hard. [00:13:59] Speaker D: Well, can you talk about what makes it hard? I mean, I've never done, like, a full season of winter conditioning. So what is that, like, what makes it so hard compared to, say, getting up to get in the water in the spring season or something? [00:14:11] Speaker B: I mean, I think it's different for everybody. For me, one, I'm not a morning person, so it's hard enough for me to get out of bed to get to the boathouse anyway. But you get up, you get out of bed to go to the boathouse to sit on an erg and just churn out meters, and it's just. You're not moving, you're not outside, it's cold, your bed is cozy. Like, for me, it's just really hard. I don't think it's unique to rowing, though. I think that it's. It's those sort of choices you make every morning as a human being of, like, this is who I want to be, this is what I want to do. And so it's that, like. So my bed's so cozy. Is it really going to hurt if I miss this morning? It's so tempting in the winter when you're just like. It's mostly for me, it's really, really cold out and I have to get out of my bed where it's super warm and cozy, and go out to my car when it's like, 18 degrees outside and like walk my. But up through the cold to the boathouse. That's. It's the cold for me that I'm like, I don't want to be out in the cold when you're rowing on the water. I am so in love with being on the water in the morning. It's just very different. [00:15:13] Speaker E: It was striking me that, like, irging is the removes all the things that, that first episode we all said we loved about. [00:15:22] Speaker D: Exactly what I was going to say. [00:15:24] Speaker E: You're not doing it together. You're not in nature. You're not like, you know, none of us. [00:15:29] Speaker D: We talked about the boats coming down the river and how beautiful that was. [00:15:32] Speaker C: Well, you think about it, I mean, when spring rowing can be incredibly cold. [00:15:36] Speaker B: I mean, you can be out. [00:15:37] Speaker C: I mean, our, you know, our kids are out there, college kids are out there in February. It's cold, but they're out there. [00:15:43] Speaker B: It's. [00:15:43] Speaker C: It's easier to get out there when it's cold in February on a boat than it is to get out there when it's cold and dark on an erg. Yeah. Because it is, you know, it's just a totally different environment. And, you know, if you scroll around on Instagram and I watch some of these college rowers, you know, that's the thing they post like, okay, back to the erg, you know, because it's just. It's exactly opposite of what you're saying. [00:16:05] Speaker E: Yeah, yeah. [00:16:06] Speaker D: To play devil's advocate for some of that stuff, one of the things I absolutely love about the erg is the instant feedback. Like, I love. We talked a little bit about this earlier. Like, I love having that monitor there to tell me exactly how I'm doing. It's just instant feedback. The erg is also very efficient. I feel like I can get a great workout in less time than going out and running around my neighborhood. Not that I ever do that. I never do that. But the idea of running around my whole neighborhood, there's a reason why I don't do that because it just takes a long time and it just seems less efficient. But on an erg, I can get a full body, low impact workout in kind of a less amount of time. And I'm someone who's motivated by feedback. Like, I love seeing, oh, when I pull harder, I get a lower split or I, you know, get meters under me a little faster. And so I think that's great. So what do you love about erging? [00:16:52] Speaker B: I mean, there's an assumption that I love irging. Okay. I I actually do think I'm one of the weird ones. I, I really do love working out. It's like a thing for me. And I really struggle with motivation to get out of bed and erg. I struggle especially I have an erg at my house. Best investment I ever made. The boys and I have put so many meters on the erg that I have at my house. But there have been mornings in winter conditioning where it's cold and I don't want to get up and I was late, I was up late the night before for some reason or another and I'm like, I want to sleep in. And so I'll like pause my alarm and I'll say I'm going to erg in my living room. It is miserable to erg in my living room and it is almost impossible for me to self motivate to just erg alone in the living room. So for me, the way I've set up my motivation is the accountability of other people. Like I have to leave the house and there are people at the boathouse expecting me to show up. And I need that like accountability because you know, I, I know what I want. Like I want to stay in shape. I love the way that my body feels. Not, not just like the way I look, but how I feel. I feel healthy. Like I can go on a hike and I can do the things and I can lift heavy things and I can help my friends move and I, I just like being really healthy and so I know that I want that. I personally just need sort of social accountability in order to achieve what I know I want in the future. Right. [00:18:12] Speaker E: This kind of thing's a new breakthrough for me finally because really been trying. Well, I'm one. Every January I'll set a New Year's resolution, I'm going to start working out. You know, we bought an erg, we bought a whatever, you know, we bought a home gym thingy. We did all this kind of. And I just have discovered I hate working out in my own house. Like I've always been someone who needs to go to, likes to go to work, to do work. And when I'm home, I have a hard time doing work when I am, you know, that, that separation of space is something I didn't expect. So I, I got this why I know about Planet Fitness now. I went to Planet's Fitness, but I am finding that if I can just roll myself out of bed and get in the car and point it towards Planet Fitness, then it's like it's there and I don't have any out. And I'm finding myself spending more time once I'm there than I would at home because I start thinking of all the reasons why or I get tired and it's like, well, I'd really rather just stop now. So that difference of space has been helpful as a motivator for me, which is probably not anything new to all the people listening to this podcast, but for me, this was like one of these crazy aha moments that's been helpful. [00:19:21] Speaker B: I think it's really different for every. Like what, what causes you to make those like, day to day choices. It's genuinely. I think it's really different for everybody. Right. I think you were telling a story about your, your girlfriends that you kind of use to. [00:19:34] Speaker C: Yeah. Now one of the things that motiv is getting on and knowing someone else is there, you know, and we, we years ago, we got our pelotons and three of us got on every single day and we knew all of us were going to be on and we were doing the same classes. And it was that accountability that your friend was going to be there. And, you know, if you didn't get on, you were not letting someone down, but you weren't, you weren't part of that. And we, after this was during COVID and then after Covid, we kind of fell apart because everybody got busy again. And we realized, like, we really gelled when we did that. And so we started in January and it's been great because we talk more too. And we talk every day now when we're doing the class. Oh, my God, that was hard. Or oh, I can't do planks anymore like I used to. Or, you know, and motivating each other to get back into doing those classes on the erg. I like their challenges. So Concept two does challenges online. And you can log online too. I feel like we talk. [00:20:30] Speaker E: Oh, I didn't know that. [00:20:31] Speaker C: Um, if you go to the Concept2 website, they have daily challenges. Like your daily workout is going to be, you know, five sets of four minutes on with two minutes off, you know, and so I really like that because they set up the workout for you and then you can log it. And I don't. I think you can do it. I haven't figured it out, but you can set up your monitor to download into the logbook. But that's a little too techno techno for me. I just don't know how to do it. [00:20:57] Speaker B: It's so much easier than you think it is. Okay. [00:21:00] Speaker C: You'll have to show Me later because I'm like typing everything on my computer. [00:21:04] Speaker D: Oh my God. Ask one of the teenagers to help. You have to help me with that. [00:21:09] Speaker C: But I like it like, I like getting on there and like seeing what the daily workout is and then logging it. And so I think that's another way that I, I kind of check myself. And then my last one is, is like if I have a tv, this. [00:21:21] Speaker D: Is really silly, but I've got a. [00:21:22] Speaker C: Big TV in the gym too. So like I will not watch my favorite program sitting on the couch. I'll watch them while I'm either on the bike or on like I, that's my treat for like getting on the concept too. Or getting on the bike is like I'm watching my favorite program on the TV there. So I know that's a little silly. [00:21:40] Speaker D: But this is giving me ideas. [00:21:41] Speaker A: It's like a reward. [00:21:42] Speaker C: Yeah, it is. It's a reward. [00:21:44] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, like, so I, I'm a journalist and so I've worked at home by myself for 25 years now actually. I've been someone who's really used to being self motivated and working at home and not having to leave my house to go do something productive. But that's because as a journalist I have deadlines and I have editors, et cetera, expecting things of me. So there's that accountability piece. So one thing I've learned too is that I very much need accountability. And so I don't get on the erg as much as I should because I should probably be emailing all of you saying, hey, I'm telling you right now that I'm gonna erg four times this week so that I can be accountable someone. Because I think that is so crucial whether you do it in your own house or whether you have to leave the house, like just, you know, forcing yourself, figuring out what your motivations are. And for me it's having some external person waiting for something from me can get me going. So. But I like hearing all these ideas. This is, is great. [00:22:32] Speaker B: Yeah. So I think what's interesting is, you know, we're talking about how we make these sort of day to day choices, but it's not always obvious. Right. So I've learned this, honestly, this is something I learned from Derek and Danny, my kids is, you know, Derek made choices and it was small choices. Like he's talked about past relationship he had where she, she wanted him to stay up until nine and his bedtime was eight and it was something he was not willing to sacrifice. And that's just A small decision like your bedtime one night, you can't give up one hour, one night. And for him, with his long term goals, he was like, I can't sacrifice that. [00:23:06] Speaker A: Right. [00:23:07] Speaker B: And so we've been talking about the decisions we're making when it comes to kind of working out, but those sort of daily choices that we make in life, right. Or that accumulation of our choices, right. Where we are. Where we are today because of the accumulation of maybe inconsequential choices that we made on a given day in the past or a series of choices we made on a given day in the past. As you guys kind of look back over your lives, can you think of like a. A moment or a series of choices that you're like, looking back on it? I didn't know it at the time, but this really led me to where I am right now. [00:23:38] Speaker E: Well, the number one one for me is just the dissertation, really. That done? Yeah, that was hard. [00:23:43] Speaker D: Wow. [00:23:44] Speaker E: But we had just. We were such babies at the time, but we. But we had Emily when I was working on my dissertation. So it was. [00:23:53] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. [00:23:53] Speaker E: I would get up in the morning and I would work. When she napped, I would work, but we would get up and when. Or I would get up and do work. And then she would wake up and we would go to the zoo too, because she liked the aquarium. And then we'd come back home and I'd have to work while she did those nap times. But that was one of those things where, you know, any. Any hour I didn't work or any day I didn't put in the two to four hours of writing and, and really thinking was going to delay my ability to start working for a good amount of time. So that was. She actually is the reason I had a lot of the discipline to get that dissertation done. Because an open day would be difficult to sort of parse apart. Like, I don't know how Kim does it, to be honest. The, like the discipline of getting stuff done. But those are little decisions that I think of when I think of what mattered. [00:24:41] Speaker B: What about you? [00:24:42] Speaker C: I was thinking about this as listening to Ed. I think I never thought of this at the time, but, you know, I am where I am because I chose to be home for my girls. I chose to, like, get home and make sure I, you know, put time into my family. I didn't go to all the receptions and the evening lobbying parties. And that was a choice. I mean, I didn't really think about it at the time because it was an Easy choice, but it was a choice. [00:25:07] Speaker E: What I love about that example, Jess, is how the, you know, here on our podcast we could get too focused on, oh, your erging equals certain results with your rowing and that, that's all that matters. And so if you aren't putting in your winter and condition at the same level, then somehow that is, you know, that's a problem. But only as defined as, you know, the race on the, on that specific water, that outcome. But in, in this case, you know, it's that, that investment in something that's a little bit bigger, that there's multifaceted parts of a good life, right? That investment pays off, right. [00:25:40] Speaker B: The investment in the erg overwater conditioning only pays off if what you want is, right, to be super competitive as a rower and you want it to kind of be your life. Right. I think there's definitely examples where people have made different decisions. You know, we talked a little bit about Declan and he was a, he's. Declan is an incredible drummer, right? And his choice to kind of balance and not give up band or rowing and to try and balance those two things ultimately led him to a really happy place right now where he is at school, right? And doing what he, you know, what he wants to do at school. And so that sort of investment only matters if that's what your, your kind of goal is. And I think my, my story around my choices is really not any specific choices, but I think when I look back on my life, I have been led in the right direction or wrong direction, depending on whether or not my choice is based on following my instinct or not. [00:26:33] Speaker A: Right. [00:26:33] Speaker B: I can point to instances where someone has influenced me and it didn't feel right. And that led me down a very sort of right hand turn off of the opportunities that I wanted for the future. And then on the flip side of it, I've made choices where this is my instinct and it feels like maybe it's the wrong choice. But it led me to building wind farms, it led me to finding the boy's dad, which was really complicated and we lost him in a really tragic way. But I wouldn't change that for the life of me, right? I wouldn't change going through that because my kids are just incredible human beings. And I wouldn't change who their dad is or what we've been through because they wouldn't be who they are today. And I wouldn't either. So for me, I think it's really around, like really kind of honing for me. And this is sort of a New thing for me is to kind of really, when I'm making any decision, big or small, to really, like, listen to my instincts and trust my instincts, because that's where I go the wrong direction or the right direction. So. All right, so I think that was awesome and heavy, but again, it's time for some fun. So I think we've come to our trivia section. [00:27:33] Speaker D: We have. Okay, this is a musical trivia question. One of my favorite types. What band which gained popularity in the 90s, had a song with the following lyrics? Don't know where I'm going. I just keep on rowing. I just keep on pulling. Got a row. [00:27:50] Speaker B: Oh, gosh. [00:27:51] Speaker D: I'll say it again. [00:27:52] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. [00:27:53] Speaker D: What band which gained popularity in the 90s, had a song with the following lyrics? Don't know where I'm going, I just keep on rowing. I just keep on pulling. [00:28:02] Speaker E: Gotta row now, knowing Kim, probably, it probably has to do with Pearl Jam. [00:28:10] Speaker D: Not a bad guess. Can I. [00:28:11] Speaker B: Can I phone a friend? [00:28:13] Speaker D: No, you may not. Wow. Think 90s. It is a rock band, if that helps. But not Pearl Jam. But not a bad guess. [00:28:22] Speaker E: Okay, so then we're. [00:28:24] Speaker D: And I have hints if you need a red hat. [00:28:25] Speaker C: Peppers. [00:28:26] Speaker D: Not them either. I can give you a hint. [00:28:28] Speaker E: But she also likes Chris Cornell's Soundgarden. [00:28:31] Speaker D: It's Soundgarden. Good job, Ed. My hand was going to be that the band was just inducted into the Rock and Roll hall of Fame and that they're from Seattle. There's no evidence that anyone in the band Soundgarden ever wrote. It was purely metaphorical. But the song is crazy. Called Rowing. [00:28:47] Speaker B: No way. [00:28:48] Speaker D: There's a couple other lyrics. [00:28:50] Speaker E: Trivia question. [00:28:50] Speaker D: That is a great trivia. And I like these other lyrics from the song is rowing is living, and living is hard, but living beats losing all that we are. [00:28:59] Speaker B: Oh, that kind of fish. Perfectly. I need to listen to this song. [00:29:05] Speaker D: And actually, the song has a. Has a very droning beat, so I feel like I could picture myself rowing to the song. So anyway. [00:29:12] Speaker C: Okay, that's our challenge. All of us have to get on our erg and row to the song and get back. [00:29:19] Speaker B: All right. [00:29:19] Speaker D: It's low and slow, so that sounds good. [00:29:23] Speaker B: Look that song up. [00:29:24] Speaker E: All right, well, another good episode. So we hope you enjoyed this side of the Splash. Right. And just keep on listening. And thanks for. Thanks for tuning in. [00:29:37] Speaker B: Don't pause. We'll see you on the other side. [00:29:38] Speaker D: The of. [00:29:38] Speaker B: Of the Flash. [00:29:40] Speaker E: Excellent.